Bettini: "Conte has turned the Five Star Movement into guarantors. This isn't the PD's surrender. Sala? He shouldn't resign."

It's the hand, and the voice, of Goffredo Bettini. He speaks to Il Foglio as "a man of peace." Is Giuseppe Conte a guarantor with Matteo Ricci? "He transformed the Five Star Movement, overcame judicialism, and is rising in the polls. Only those who didn't destroy him mock him." Should Beppe Sala resign as Conte is demanding? "I don't agree, but his is not a criminal trial, but a political one. " Is the Five Star Movement negotiating in the Marche region to get Fico in Campania? "There's no bargaining." Is Vincenzo De Luca the Trump of the left? "He's a thoroughbred politician, not a portrait of Crozza." Has the Democratic Party submitted to the Five Star Movement? Is this its moral surrender? "No surrender; the alliance isn't about being a mere copycat."

"Bettini's hand is there," and it's written, "that it's all Bettini's doing if Conte in the Marche region..." Dear Bettini, have we found the next Foreign Minister or rediscovered the man who invented Conte II? "Let's not start over. I simply helped the Democratic Party and its secretary achieve a common goal: keeping our coalition united in the Marche region in support of Matteo Ricci. The bare minimum." Conte says that "there can't be an organic alliance with the Democratic Party" but that the Five Star Movement "isn't asking for Ricci to step down." Aren't you worried about being seen, once again, as the lawyer of the Lawyer in the clutch bag? I've always believed in his integrity. Conte can sometimes be harsh or disagree with the Democratic Party. But mocking a man who transformed his movement into a governing party, who led the country, with us, saving it, who defeated Grillo and Casaleggio internally, who maintains his electorate at 13 percent, seems to me the way to vent the anger of those who wanted but failed to destroy him.

Dear Bettini, how can one go from the gallows to Voltaire? Or can one go for Fico's candidacy in Campania? Isn't that a "barter"? "Fico has nothing to do with it . There's no bartering going on. Rather, I think Conte's statement that a notice of investigation is not a conviction is important. Justice, in fact, must take its course, free and autonomous. It's up to politics alone, in short, to decide whether to continue its path, until the defendant is finally judged, or, in cases of manifest gravity, to push him back." Are you saying that Conte's conference is the Bad Godesberg of the Five Star Movement's "guaranteeism"? "Conte has transcended justicialism; he seems more concerned with preventing crimes by monitoring strict behavior, rather than celebrating the conviction of defendants. His gamble has already paid off. With his conduct, he's holding up and rising in the polls." Do you know what your reformist (and "guarantee-supporting") friends in the Democratic Party think? That the power of supreme judge is being handed over to Conte. Is this your surrender? "But what surrender? The Democratic Party, with Elly Schlein, has acquired an authoritative profile, which it rightly asserts. The Five Star Movement does the same. The alliance doesn't involve always being in the same boat. The right agrees on almost nothing. And yet, it governs. Poorly. But it governs. We have great values that unite us. Starting with those of the Italian Constitution."

Manfredi Catella and former councilor Tancredi were arrested in Milan . Why did the Democratic Party defend Beppe Sala so late, and so poorly? "In truth, the secretary immediately expressed solidarity with Sala. He is an honest, intelligent, and respected person. In Milan, there is a bitter political debate over the city's development. Even Conte, who called for the mayor's resignation (with which I disagree), doesn't raise any moral or even criminal concerns. Rather, he confirms a political-administrative judgment, for decisions he considers unacceptable." Ricci is called "Bettini's pupil," but isn't the right right right when it repeats: "If Ricci is innocent, he undoubtedly made the wrong collaborators"? "The right attacking Ricci? Some Sicilians say: the best word is the one you don't say. It would have been better for them to remain silent. Between those under investigation, those convicted, those reticent, and those fleeing investigations, the right could fill a football stadium. I've known Ricci since he was a boy. He holds his miner grandfather dear, lives a modest life, and is totally dedicated to his work: he's a comrade who knows how to be among his comrades and a mayor who knows how to be among his citizens. I'm proud to be his friend." Why is the Democratic Party (PD) delaying formalizing the candidacy of a gentleman like Eugenio Giani in Tuscany? "I respect Giani. I personally hope that we can eventually reach him, but the debate isn't over." In Campania, Vincenzo De Luca isn't giving in. Is he the Trump of Mergellina? De Luca, like it or not, has governed Campania with broad consensus and impressive results. He's occasionally let loose, but deep down he's an old-school leader: realism and ultimately, protection of his own political party. We need to usher in a new era, one that embraces all the good things done previously. We can win in Campania. One of the most talked-about figures, Fico, has all the credentials to fight. In Naples, we have Gaetano Manfredi, a formidable mayor. Only an own goal can make us lose. How would you negotiate with De Luca? "By taking him seriously. He's not the portrait, albeit amusing, of Crozza; he's a thoroughbred politician." De Luca in Naples, Emiliano in Puglia. Are they kingpins or two great right-wing fortunes? Emiliano paved the way for a generation of very talented young people. After so many years in his region, he can certainly contribute a great deal at the national level. Sometimes, when important phases come to an end, you need to leave the stage to your 'children.' In Rome, after many years of my management, Zingaretti arrived, along with many others, and I left all my responsibilities in Lazio. Decaro is excellent. He needs great freedom to give his best.

Along with Franceschini, he reiterates the need for a centrist party. Will Genoa's mayor, Silvia Salis, lead it? "The need is finally being recognized by everyone. I really like what's happening from the grassroots. Ruffini's network, the mobilization of a segment of the Catholic world with Ciani and Tarquinio. And then the truly enormous strength of the initiative proposed by Alessandro Onorato, a true talent, which brings together hundreds and hundreds of administrators. It seems premature to me to talk now about who will lead all this." Is it true that the Democratic Party is sending signs of affection to the judiciary to defeat the right? "Fantasies. The Democratic Party has long maintained a consistent line on justice issues. Personally, I strongly emphasize the issue of guarantees for the accused, who are alone. Redressing the imbalance of power is what made me become an Italian communist as a boy." No one, not even the left, believes in victory in the general election. What will Bettini come up with this time? “There's nothing to invent. Currently, the center-left enjoys at least as much support as the right. All it takes is good organization, a soul, a government program, and even a dream .” The “magician,” the “guarantor,” or Bettini, “a man of peace”? “If I had to choose, a man of peace. War has been cleared. The West and Europe have great responsibilities. We need men of peace. Words of peace. Of course, Machiavelli pitied princes without their own armies. But an intelligent and realistic policy puts peace first through deterrence.”

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